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I forgot to talk about choir!

We have two (2) pieces this season!

They're two full masses, that's why there's only two: one by Haydn, one by Beethoven. (At this point, why not just go for a mass by Mozart, sez I, to round out the collection? But I don't make these choices and I suppose that'd make our one-hour concert too long.)

At any rate, the alto section has become the Fake Soprano section. Palestrina was quite low last term - we sang G below middle C frequently - but here the altos are frequently singing around the C above middle C, up to E, and so on. Personally, this is my "sounds escape with little (volume) control" range, which is uncomfortable and also why I'm an alto in the first place. The sopranos, meanwhile, are practically stuck on the high F and G these days. (We were singing and the music made a dip to B-flat below middle C and I thought: "oh man that's low grk" since we'd been stuck in the higher registers for so long - normally B-flat is dead easy.) Also, whomever arranged this score did not do a very good job, because occasionally I'll turn the page and there is this massive jump that was totally unexpected next.

But it's great! There's so much variety contained in the masses, and I am deeply amused that there are parts in 6/8 - part of the Benedictus, even, I think. (The often-repetitive nature - by design - of Classical pieces means that the same motifs show up in multiple movements, so I can never...quite keep track.) I mean, you don't expect swingy 6/8 in masses! But there it is, in full "hosanna in excelsis deo".


We are doing both masses in Germanic Latin. The Germanic bit is because of our conductor, and I don't know why. In the second week of this, he said: "I've had attempted mutinies from choirs before [over the pronounciation]" which is kind of amusing, but I get why. So far, we are just replacing things like "coeli" with /tsø.li/, /ts/ with everything I thought was supposed to be /tʃ/ (dona nobis pacem became /pɑ.tsem/ which was confusing because everyone tried to sing it the conventional, Italian-style way), and also vowel replacements. Like "kyrie" with /ø/ instead of /i/ which makes me grumpy because it's harder to sing (farther back in the mouth plus lip rounding!) and also kyrie is not Latin anyway. And "qui" became /kv/ instead of /kw/ or just /k/. Also, all the esses are being turned into z (/s/ -> /z/) which makes us all sound like we're putting on awful German accents.

*appeals to schwa* Does German voice /s/ word intially? Or intervocalically, at least? Also, do you actually use /kv/? That's always pinged me as "terribad accent", but IDEK anymore. Technically there is a German bass, but he is tall and physics-y instead of linguistic-y and I can't ask.

Mostly I'm pleased, though. I had to learn about masses-set-to-music in music history when I was studying piano, and had to memorize things like the order of movements (Kyrie-Gloria-Credo-Sanctus-Benedictus-Agnus Dei) and it's fun to actually get to sing through them all. Plus one is a missa brevis, so we are often singing different texts over top of each other, and it's fun to puzzle out the Latin. When the conductor is working with another section I try to figure out what the words mean and whether I've seen any of the daughter words that have budded off from them.

Crosspost: http://silverflight8.dreamwidth.org/123186.html.


Feb. 5th, 2013 06:36 am (UTC)
German word-initial /s/ are ALL /z/.
iirc, all are /z/ except when written as "ss" or "ß", at the end of a word (final obstruent devoicing!) or in combination with voiceless consonants (Skat, Ast,...).
word-initial st/sp is ʃt/ʃp.
(as you know, I'm having problems writing this as my dialect gives to fucks about /z/)

/kv/ for "Qu", yes.
"Qual" (torture?) = [kva:l].
We also pronounced our Latin like that.

We also learnt, for Latin:
c before i and e = /ts/
c before a o u = /k/
-- but iirc, that's only for Bavaria. other states are like "EVERYTHING IS /k/"

And "kyrie" we always sing [ky:rie].

Feb. 5th, 2013 03:32 pm (UTC)
German word-initial /s/ are ALL /z/.
*immediately suffused with giggles*

Got it. Wait, what does your dialect do with /z/?

The /kv/ kills me every time. Especially since Conductor is all "spit out the k's before you sing! SPIT ALL OVER THE ALTOS, BASS SECTION!" etc.

OK, that makes sense. Wait, do you sing/used to sing? Or do you just learn these things (proper pronounciation of Latin) elsewhere?
Feb. 5th, 2013 03:36 pm (UTC)
/z/ no exist.
there are very, very few words where it makes a difference and you can usually know from the context. (one example: sex (which is pronounced with /s/ in High-German because it's not a German word) and sechs [6]. you can assume Franconians don't count ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE COITUS SEVEN EIGHT NINE TEN.)

I took Latin for... four years in school?
Feb. 7th, 2013 02:19 am (UTC)
*realizes this comment hasn't been replied to*

/z/ doesn't exist?!?! Do you ever have problems in English with contrastive /s/ and /z/ then?

Ahahahaha, I suppose not!

Latin classes (!!!) Man.
Feb. 8th, 2013 06:36 am (UTC)
1. yes. a lot. fuck you.

2. it's common in Germany? if you go to a school that is going to get you to university, you have to take either Latin or French in 7th grade. (up until 11th, at least). and as my school had a Modern Ling track, I had to take Spanish or Italian in 9th (also up to 11th, but I took it until TEH END)

honestly. around unfamiliar people at a university and want to make conversation that everyone has something to add to?
"French or Latin?"

Edited at 2013-02-08 06:37 am (UTC)
Feb. 14th, 2013 01:20 am (UTC)

but then I was trying to think of minimal pairs...but nope. The thing I notice most is the /θ/ and /ð/ being stopped into /t/ or /d/ or something, and some weird vowels.

Fascinating :D

Edited at 2013-02-14 01:21 am (UTC)
Feb. 14th, 2013 02:48 pm (UTC)
mace maze



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